The Power of ADHD in Buisness
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Becca Brighty (00:02):
Hello and welcome to the ADHD Impact podcast.
(00:04):
I'm Becca Brighty, business psychologist and ADHD coach who received an ADHD diagnosis at the age of 34.
(00:11):
I've since seized my professional training to understand how the ADHD brain functions and use that information to change the way I work.
(00:18):
The purpose of this podcast is to help people to see how they can harness their ADHD brain so that they can make the impact in the world that they know that they can.
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And to help those working with ADHD'ers to create environments that help everyone thrive at work.
(00:30):
Today we have Ari Scott with us, also known as the ADHD entrepreneur, and she's an ADHD business coach and consultant influencer and advocate on a mission to grow a hundred thousand ADHD owned businesses.
(00:48):
Morning Ari, or evening for you in Australia?
Ari Scott (00:51):
Very much evening, but good morning to you.
Becca Brighty (00:56):
So I asked Ari to come on the podcast today because she has quite a similar ethos to me about ADHD in the workplace, ADHD businesses in that, correct me if I'm wrong, but am I right in understanding that you see ADHD as a strength when it's harnessed properly?
Ari Scott (01:12):
Yeah, that would definitely, definitely be true.
Becca Brighty (01:15):
And so alongside that belief, and she's done it herself, she also has the skills that she then teaches people in how they actually turn the kind of the ADHD chaos into a successful business.
(01:29):
First of all, Ari, it would probably be really helpful for me, I haven't chat to you about this, so Ari has recently become my coach, and so it'd be useful, I think, for me and the listeners to know a bit about your A DHD diagnosis story.
Ari Scott (01:43):
Yeah, sure.
(01:44):
So funny enough, one caveat already on seeing ADHD as a strength.
(01:49):
So it's always a bit of a joke that I have between me and my inner circle that when people message me on my Instagram asking me for advice about ADHD in general, I always say I'm really not the person to ask about personal life and ADHD, but business is definitely my jam.
(02:06):
And the reason for that is, is I definitely wholeheartedly believe that ADHD is a strength for entrepreneurship.
(02:12):
I think in everyday life it is extremely challenging in many, many ways because of the way that society is set up.
(02:22):
So that's why business is kind of, I guess, an avenue for people with ADHD to really excel in that can solve that problem in some senses.
(02:32):
But in terms of my own diagnosis, so I was actually misdiagnosed as a kid, so I was pretty textbook ADHD, to be honest.
(02:40):
All the classic symptoms, it wasn't one of those cases of it presenting differently in girls. I was just very hyperactive and all over the shop.
(02:48):
But when my parents took me for diagnosis, the child psychologist that we saw told them that I was too intelligent to have ADHD. And obviously we now know 15, 20 years later, whenever that was, that there's not really a correlation between ADHD and intelligence. But that sort of led to if I didn't have ADHD, which is what the people around me were told, then I must've just been choosing to behave that way and so on and so forth.
(03:16):
So then as an adult, I just started to learn more about ADHD from meeting other people with a ADHD who kept saying to me, ''Are you sure?''
(03:25):
And I was like, ''No, I know I was tested as a kid. It's not the case.''
(03:29):
So on and so forth, and then I was like, you know what? There's so many themes in my life. I've been fired five times from jobs, I was expelled from school, all of that jazz. It's all there.
(03:41):
So I took myself about probably about three to three and a half years ago now, along for a diagnosis as an adult, and the psychiatrist I saw said I was probably the most textbook case of ADHD he'd ever seen.
(03:55):
So that kind of started off that whole diagnosis journey for me.
Becca Brighty (03:59):
OK, and so have you met other people that this has happened to where they've been told as a child, no, but then found out as an adult that actually, yes, it's very definitely the case?
Ari Scott (04:08):
I think it still happens now. So my little cousin, funny enough, is kind of experiencing a similar situation at the moment, and also a new client of mine, her son had the same experience, but with ADHD and autism, and I think it is still because that same stigma from 15 years ago is still just so rampant.
(04:31):
That misunderstanding of how ADHD presents or what it is or how to even recognise it, even in experts, medically trained experts in the field, is still lacking, to be honest.
(04:47):
And that's also something that really drives me to do what I do as well.
Becca Brighty (04:51):
Yeah, it's difficult. I do feel like with anything to do with neurodivergence, you're kind of a bit on your own. You have to navigate it yourself, and if you can't pay for it, then you can't really get any help.
Ari Scott (05:01):
Oh yeah. Especially now, it's so bad.
Becca Brighty (05:05):
Is it the same in Australia? Because in the UK it's not really that much support.
Ari Scott (05:10):
Yeah, so the UK is actually ahead of Australia, I would say probably about two to three years ahead in terms of managing and definitely support. So it's very difficult to get any support from government bodies or anything like that for ADHD in Australia currently.
(05:29):
And there's nothing like access to work or anything like that. So I would actually say that the UK is ahead. That being said, I think the wait list is a much bigger problem in the UK in terms of the, because the wait time is bad in Australia, I think it's about two to three years, but I think in the UK it's about five years now, minimum, which is mental.
Becca Brighty (05:52):
Yeah, no, I think access to work is absolutely amazing. And the fact that that exists once you get sorted, it is absolutely life-changing, but I more mean around all the diagnosis and then if you ever go to the GP about anything, they don't seem to know anything or who to even refer you onto, even if you do have private healthcare, all that kind of stuff, it's a bit of a mission.
(06:12):
So what happened then? So you thought you didn't have ADHD, then you found out you did, you'd been being fired from all these jobs and all that kind of stuff. And I imagine we're living in a chaotic, a bit of a chaotic way.
(06:25):
What then happened from there to then now having a five figure a month turnover business and helping other ADHD entrepreneurs?
Ari Scott (06:35):
It was kind of a series of crazy coincidences to be honest. So around the same time I got my diagnosis, I decided to start my first business, which is not the one I do now, obviously. So that was called Handle, which was an ethical food delivery platform.
(06:49):
And throughout that, obviously I was so hyperfocused on my new diagnosis as well, I was really curious about how it was showing up in my business anyway, so I was aligning that with me as much as possible.
(06:59):
And then I ended up on Clubhouse. So for anyone that doesn't know what Clubhouse is, because I know it was a bit of a niche app, it was basically podcasting, but with an audience live, you could ask questions.
(07:09):
And I really wanted to get into starting spaces for first time entrepreneurs because there's just so much information that's difficult to find when you first start a business.
(07:19):
So I was in a space full of entrepreneurs, like hundreds of entrepreneurs in this audio space, and I casually mentioned having ADHD, and honestly, about 80% of the people in this room were like, ''Oh, I've got ADHD, I've got ADHD, I've got ADHD.''
(07:33):
And it absolutely just fascinated me, and I was like, ''Okay, well I need to know the connection immediately.''
(07:39):
So I started looking into it, and then I started on there talking about everything that I'd been doing in my business to align it with my brain, and it just sort of blew up. I think it was about 5,000 members in there within a few months, we had like10 different people running spaces in the club that was on there.
(07:54):
And I got to the point where it was so much work, I was like, I'm going to kind of have to choose between one and the other. And I couldn't keep doing it if I wasn't making money from it, so I decided to move to that and get into ADHD business coaching and consultancy, and that's kind of where it all started.
Becca Brighty (08:14):
Wow, that's amazing.
Ari Scott (08:16):
Yeah, wild ride.
Becca Brighty (08:18):
And so I love that story, and that is such an ADHD story.
(08:23):
Like, oh, I just went on this app and then decided to launch a whole new business from it.
Ari Scott (08:29):
Yeah, that's literally exactly what happened, and I don't know what to tell you, I was just like, this just needs to happen.
(08:34):
And the whole mission around the a hundred thousand ADHD owned businesses, it started from that because I just see business as such a lifeline, as I said earlier for ADHD'ers, we are neurobiologically designed to be very good as entrepreneurs, given the right support and the right solutions.
(08:51):
And having myself done so badly in employment, except actually the last job I had in marketing before my business, which was annoying because I was really looking forward to my dramatic quit moment when my business started doing well. But I actually loved my boss for the first time ever. She was amazing. She's still a mentor of mine, she's fantastic.
(09:12):
So she stole that from me because I didn't get to go in there and be like, ''I don't need this job anymore. I quit.'' It was actually sad.
(09:17):
But yeah, I think that, I know, right? I mean, there's worse problems to have, but I think that, as I said, life is so difficult for ADHD'ers, especially in employment, and I just am so driven to provide that skillset for as many ADHD'ers as possible so that they can have that business and honestly just build their lives more around how they operate.
(09:40):
So that's the driving force for that.
Becca Brighty (09:42):
Yeah, I love that. I definitely think for me, the biggest stress, the biggest place where I've seen difficulty has been in the workplace, whereas now that I've learned all this stuff about my brain and I've aligned how I work with how my brain actually works, I've never been more productive.
(09:58):
And if someone before my diagnosis, if someone said to take away all the negative things, I'd be like, '''Yeah, yeah, yeah, please do.''
(10:05):
Whereas now I just see them as having ADHD and all the strengths that I get, I wouldn't swap, I wouldn't take away the negatives just by a click of a button to have to take away the positives that I now can see as positives.
(10:19):
And I've reduced loads of the negatives anywhere myself through how I'm now working. I'm interested to know, you said when you went into Clubhouse that you were talking about the things that you were doing to align your business with your brain.
(10:31):
What kind of things were they?
Ari Scott (10:33):
It's funny because at the time it would be totally different to what it was now because obviously I wasn't exactly driven to do that at the time. It was just something that was happening naturally.
(10:44):
But definitely the main one would've been really separating myself from how people were telling me how to run my business.
(10:54):
So like most people with ADHD, my hyper focus for example, is very, very intense. When I'm hyperfocused, that's it, I'm in, there's nothing else.
(11:05):
So rather than trying to fight hyper focus, I lean into it and I intentionally lean into it, but with strategies around to make sure that when it gets to a certain line, it's not too detrimental.
(11:17):
So there's times in my business where I'll happily work every single day, 12 to 14 hours a day. When I'm in that state of hyper focus, that is not something I try to fight because I get more done in those hours and those months than most entrepreneurs who don't have ADHD will get done in a year.
(11:35):
But it's all about balance, and it's kind of like you have to, first of all, redesign how you respond to the stimulus around you in the world. So to most people, if you say, ''Well, I'm going to work seven days a week, 14 hours this week.''
(11:50):
Most people are going to tell you not to do that, right? Because obviously burnout, there's a risk of all that, and of course that is true. But if that's the way your brain works and when you're on it, and if you can get that much done in that time, measuring yourself against neurotypical standards at that time, I realised just wasn't right for me.
(12:07):
But now doing what I do as an ADHD business coach, I would make sure that I had systems in place and automations in place to make sure that that was being measured so that I wouldn't burn out.
(12:20):
Because I did burn out before as a result of doing that early on, right?
(12:24):
So it's, it's been a real journey with that. But yeah, it was such a long time ago, honestly, it's difficult to remember.
Becca Brighty (12:34):
Yeah, I find that, I find now when I'm trying to reflect on how I used to work so I can compare the things I used to do to how I do things now, I'm like, oh, it's really hard to remember what things I was doing compared to now that I've got in the flow of the good life, it's really hard to think what were the unhealthy things I was doing before and why was it so difficult.
(13:01):
So what are the main challenges that you think you see in ADHD business owners that you might not see in neurotypical business owners?
Ari Scott (13:12):
I would tell you the same problem every single time. 9 times out of 10 for ADHD entrepreneurs is dopamine management.
(13:19):
So what will happen is they'll come up with a new idea, whether that's on a small scale in marketing, like a lead magnet or something like that, or the business as a whole.
(13:28):
And obviously as you know, when we get a new idea, we're flooded with dopamine. It's hitting all of those interest based nervous system motivators. So challenge, novelty, passion, all come colliding together in your brain, influx of dopamine, great. And then we'll go after that. And that's usually, by the way, when those hyper focus times sort of happen.
(13:46):
And then what will happen is the reality of those ideas will set in. And usually in business that looks like switching from creating the idea to marketing the idea, for example.
(13:57):
And marketing brings quite a lot of challenges for people with ADHD because it requires consistency, motivation, and probably most importantly, it's a huge vulnerability. So there's a huge risk of rejection.
(14:10):
So as they put themselves in that situation, that dopamine starts to wear off, and when that dopamine starts to wear off, they then switch into that self-justification mode of, well, I'll just create something new. And we are really good at explaining to ourselves why we're going to do that, even though we know subconsciously it's not the right decision.
(14:27):
That's why, so the title of my book, which I'm writing at the moment is, 'Dopamine Doesn't Pay the Bills', and that's the reason why.
(14:32):
Because every single time, the biggest, biggest problem that I see ADHD entrepreneurs up against, because we're so good at justifying why we're not doing what we quote on quote, 'should be doing', that we don't even realise we're doing it, right?
(14:46):
So yeah, definitely that definitely that.
Becca Brighty (14:49):
OK, and then what is the solution?
(14:52):
What is it that you are teaching people in terms of dopamine management?
Ari Scott (14:57):
Yeah, so I think it depends.
(14:59):
So first of all, accountability is the biggest one. So hiring a coach, to be honest, is really good for that. That's what I do myself as well, to keep you on track in that sense and to keep you accountable, but it needs to be somebody that will lead from an empathetic perspective, but also to put it frankly, call you on your bullshit because they need to spot it in the same way that you are probably ignoring it, right? So definitely accountability.
(15:28):
And second of all, setting boundaries in advance when you're in that high dopamine space. So for example, if you create an offer and now you have this information, at some point that dopamine is going to wear off. Saying, ''Okay, I'm going to create this offer, and when I go to market, the chances are that this dopamine is going to wear off.''
(15:44):
So what I usually do is just go off and create something else, but this time I'm going to commit that. Before I do that, I will post about it on a certain platform every day for three months, because then you have the right to decide whether it worked or not, because you actually know.
(16:00):
But so often the case is just, well, I posted about it once and no one bought it, so it didn't work, so I'm making something else. I'm like, I wish that was how business worked, but it's just not, you know what I mean?
(16:11):
So, creating rules essentially for yourself and then having somebody keep you accountable to those rules if you can't get a coach, even if it's a partner, a friend or whatever, someone else in business. Absolutely game changing, I promise you.
Becca Brighty (16:22):
OK, and so you just mentioned there, coming from that empathetic perspective. I myself have been on, I've had a tech startup and I definitely fall in that category of own loads of domains and have all sorts of ideas and, oh I posted about it once, it doesn't work, I'm going to buy a new domain and create a whole new logo and all the stuff that you actually don't really need,.
Ari Scott (16:45):
All the dopamine.
Becca Brighty (16:47):
All that, look at my professional logo and then there've been all these different courses and nothing.
(16:55):
Now upon reflection, I understand why those programmes didn't work for me, because they weren't designed with my brain in mind.
(17:05):
So what are your thoughts on ADHD people being coached by non ADHD coaches, non ADHD business programmes, et cetera?
Ari Scott (17:17):
I think it depends on the programme and the individual.
(17:21):
I've worked with coaches who don't have ADHD to teach me very specific parts of business, so like ads for example. So when I've worked with a coach to learn ads, I don't need them to have ADHD because they're teaching me a skillset, and that just works particularly for my brain.
(17:40):
But I think I would say especially earlier on in the journey, so when you've just launched or when you're launching, that's the most difficult time for ADHD'ers is until about two years later when outsourcing and scaling then becomes the most difficult time.
(17:57):
But in that case, honestly, having somebody who understands why you do the things you do in that way and can recognise when you're doing those things because of your ADHD rather than somebody might, that classic thing of somebody just saying to you, well just do it or get a to-do list or use this app.
(18:17):
If you're working with a coach that doesn't have ADHD at that point in your journey, that's just, it's going to have a real negative impact, I think.
(18:27):
But there's negatives and positives to both. I think if I'm being honest, it's just more about getting the right coach, so ADHD or not. So for most people with ADHD, the right coach will be somebody with ADHD, but honestly, I don't think that it has to be in my experience.
Becca Brighty (18:42):
OK, so you had coaching yourself?
Ari Scott (18:45):
Oh yeah, definitely. Not just for business either. Yeah, I've coached all over the shop.
(18:52):
So actually, honestly, funny enough, the most valuable coaching I've had for my business had nothing to do with business at all. So I had a relationship coach and having a relationship coach dramatically improved my own personal life, but really improved my business life as well because as somebody with ADHD and just my experience of life in general.
(19:13):
Before I was doing that and before I was in business, I had really no idea what boundaries even were, what that even meant or how to protect my energy in terms of people pleasing. I was a big people pleaser before and learning the skills to I guess put myself first, but equally to those around me at least, honestly, I can't tell you the effect that had on my business as a, I guess a spiral effect that I really didn't predict.
(19:42):
But other than that, yeah, I've also had business coaches. I still have a coach. It's a consistent thing for me, because I need that accountability too. Because I am just as guilty of those things.
(19:54):
And there's always so much more to learn, I built my business to six figures in less than a year, and now I'm determined in true ADHD fashion to build it to seven figures in less than five years, and I don't have the skillset to do that right now. So I could spend that five years trying to work it out or I could just pay someone to give it to me. So it just makes more sense to me, right?
Becca Brighty (20:18):
That's a big difference for me in terms of how I used to run my business, think I needed to do everything myself and that I could just learn all these different things.
(20:27):
And then now it's like, well, I probably could, and I think that that isn't. all the ADHD'ers I know they can probably teach themselves most things because they've got that.
(20:37):
I think my view on it, and I haven't looked into this, is that when you are used to not listening in class and then having to go home and teach yourself everything because you weren't probably listening or when everything is more difficult for you or you were tired that day, and so then you just get used to learning things yourself. I think that then just becomes the norm to you, that you do just teach yourself everything.
(21:00):
But that's been a game changer for me, just anything for me now, I try to operate off if I only do what I can only do and then if there's things that other people can do for me or things that can get automated, that's for that energy.
(21:15):
For me, the main thing I focus on is executive function management.
Ari Scott (21:20):
A hundred percent.
Becca Brighty (21:21):
Treating every day like an executive function marathon. So I'm trying to retain it as much as possible. So anything I can do, maintain a little bit more executive function, I'll do and so outsourcing just becomes a massive part of that.
Ari Scott (21:35):
A hundred percent.
Becca Brighty (21:36):
I'm interested to know that you said a relationship coach.
(21:38):
Was this relationship coaching just for you or was it for you and a partner?
Ari Scott (21:42):
Originally it was with me and a partner, and then that relationship ended and I continued with it because I was just getting so much from it.
(21:50):
And yeah, it was honestly, I can't recommend it enough, I really can't. Especially as ADHD is anyway, because we tend to have complex relationships as it is. But just in general, just in general.
(22:03):
So definitely if anybody is hearing this and interested in that, the lady that was with her name's Tara, I think it's Tara relationship coach on Instagram. She's absolutely fantastic. She's also ADHD, I'm sure she won't mind me saying, so she understands that as well. So if anyone is going through that stuff, shout out, five stars, 10 out of 10 recommend that one.
Becca Brighty (22:26):
I love, my husband mentioned Relate, which is a relationship therapy in the UK, and he mentioned that in our wedding speech, that's how much we like having therapy.
Ari Scott (22:42):
I'm not surprised, honestly.
(22:43):
And so my relationship with my girlfriend now is just the best, it is the absolute best. And it wouldn't have been if I hadn't gone and done all of that work.
(22:53):
And the exact same applies to business, like I said, there's just things that you just don't know and you can spend years and years trying to figure it out, or somebody who already knows and is an expert and dedicates their life to that can teach you that.
(23:05):
And outsourcing across the board, I don't even do my, I pay someone to do my laundry because I hate it and it's a problem for me, and the shame cycle around it and everything that goes with that is massive.
(23:19):
But now I just shove it all in a suitcase, walk it 50 metres down the road and it's done. That's it. That's all I have to do, and it's just something I'm not good at, right? I'm not good at it and I'm never going to be good at it. I could learn it, but it would take ages for me to learn how to be good at it, or someone could just do it for me or tell me how to do it so that I don't fuck it up.
(23:40):
That's basically what coaching is, right?
Becca Brighty (23:43):
Yeah, exactly. I don't do my laundry either. I'm so glad you've outed that. I feel like it's like people are more comfortable with you getting a cleaner or it's fine to take your car to the people who clean your car, but there's something I feel like a bit uncomfortable about.
Ari Scott (23:57):
There's a stigma, the laundry stigma.
Becca Brighty (24:01):
There's a serious laundry stigma problem.
Ari Scott (24:03):
There is. We need to tackle that immediately.
Becca Brighty (24:06):
Maybe that's the next business. After we've solved all of the problems in the ADHD business world, we can move into laundry stigma.
Ari Scott (24:15):
Oh, I'm definitely not the person to solve the laundry problem.
Becca Brighty (24:20):
Meaning that we can just raise awareness of the problem, I guess.
Ari Scott (24:23):
It is important though, because I have therapy as well. So honestly, like I said, I really do invest. I invest so much money in just trying to be a functional member of the human race.
(24:33):
And I think it's important to talk about because, so you look at my Instagram and you look at my LinkedIn or whatever, and as I said, my business is great, my business is fantastic, and my professional life is brilliant. Did I spend 10 minutes crying in therapy recently because I was looking at the pile of laundry in such a shame cycle and just like, why can't I do this? Yes.
(24:58):
And that's why I think it's so important to have these conversations and say, just because we struggle so much in certain small things does not mean that we are not capable of doing these other things. And I think that that's a disconnect in a lot of ADHD brains. You can do these things that you want to do and don't let your past or how you view yourself in situations that aren't even relatable affect those decisions to do that because it's just not the same thing.
(25:28):
But we carry the same emotions into it, and it's such an obstacle that I just, one thing I could wish for the whole ADHD community would be to dive into their brains off a diving board and just shout, ''You can do this!''
(25:40):
Because I just hit the water, honestly.
Becca Brighty (25:45):
Absolutely. This is something that I rant on about all the time with my coachees and it's this idea of, so I hear so many people this same message of, ''Oh, I can't do, I'm a rubbish adult. I'm not capable because I can't do laundry or I can't cook because when I look at a recipe, I forget what the next step is, or really always late for everything. I'm really bad at organising things. I've got 20,000 unread emails.''
(26:08):
But then they have this real frustration around the fact that as a society, we're holding these things up as being so important until you reach a certain level of an organisation, at which point you have an assistant who then does all that stuff for you.
(26:23):
So we're like, it's so important and we respect it so much, but actually once you're really important, they're not at all important. You have minions who do those things. It's celebrated, and we respect the fact that your brain should just be used for what your brain is good at, if that's good enough for the senior people in organisations, why are all businesses, why is that not just the norm?
Ari Scott (26:48):
Yeah, I agree. I think honestly, every ADHD'er would be a hundred times more motivated to build a business after they hear both of us say, ''Hey, use your strengths to build a business, and you'll never have to do your own laundry again.''
(27:01):
So they're like ''Great! What could be more motivating?'' You know what I mean?
Becca Brighty (27:04):
That's the why. That is the why in business.
Ari Scott (27:07):
I wanted to get to six figures, so someone would do my laundry, and I want to get to seven figures for a personal chef. You know what I mean? That's what's going on here.
Becca Brighty (27:15):
I need a chef and I need a chauffeur as well. Driving is so stressful.
Ari Scott (27:19):
Yeah, definitely. I'm very bad about it as well, so yeah, definitely.
Becca Brighty (27:23):
Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think that this is one of the things that is good for when you own your own business, you can see the direct correlation between, if I wash my own clothes and clean my own house, I'll have to miss out on two days of work. Or I can pay someone way less money than what I can earn in two days to take that stress and to take away the things that I'm not good at.
(27:46):
I think it's more difficult when you're employed to see it like that, but I think if there was some sort of study done over the long term in terms of employee engagement and happiness and people reaching their potential and going for promotions, et cetera, if they looked at the comparison between that and between how much outside help people had for things like cooking, cleaning, laundry, all that kind of stuff, I bet there would be a direct correlation between the two.
(28:18):
But it does feel a bit like a luxury to pay for it. But I just see it as the more money I spend on people doing my laundry and my washing, et cetera, the less money I have to spend on therapy.
Ari Scott (28:32):
It's funny you say that.
(28:34):
That's what I think, so when we were saying earlier, I was saying about access to work in the UK and how Australia doesn't have any of that yet. That's what I think funding for ADHD people should look like. At the end of the day, ADHD creates massive, massive obstacles in life that if people with ADHD were given X amount of money for somebody to do their laundry, to order pre-prepped meals or whatever, all of these things, to take that strain off without the financial guilt that comes along with it.
(29:05):
First of all, ADHD economically is very expensive for governments anyway. So it'd be saving governments shitloads of money, and also more importantly would be making life for people with ADHD so much easier. And it'd be such a small budget that would go towards that. It frustrates me, it frustrates me a lot, and it's just the classic invisible disadvantage situation.
Becca Brighty (29:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
(29:31):
And so one of the things that you mentioned earlier that again, these are invisible things, and I think you don't necessarily know you're doing a lot of these things until you stop doing them. You mentioned boundaries, people pleasing, and how much the therapy helped you with that.
(29:49):
For a lot, I'm yet to meet an ADHD'er who hasn't done a lot of work around this, who doesn't have an issue in this.
(29:55):
What did you learn about those two things?
Ari Scott (30:00):
Oh, OK.
(30:01):
Well, I will give you what I paid thousands and thousands of dollars for in therapy. So if you're not listening at any point, this is the time to listen. It turns out that it is really, really important that you talk about how you actually feel in the moment.
(30:16):
So I know this is the case for me, and I know that this is the case for a lot of other, a ADHD'ers as well, that we tend to intellectualise our feelings in order to justify how we're feeling because we're so used to being misunderstood.
(30:27):
So we have an emotional reaction, we contemplate on why we had that emotional reaction. Then we contemplate on how we can communicate that emotional reaction in a way that won't hurt the feelings of the other person who is involved in the situation. About three days have gone past by this point that we've been carrying around whole anxiety and that whole level of stress.
(30:47):
And a lot of that's, I live in Australia, but obviously I'm English. And a lot of that's quite cultural as well for us, I think. And that is people pleasing because that is how much effort in that one example did I put into protecting someone else's feelings, even though it was me that was in pain.
(31:06):
So the biggest change for me, honestly, from that was to stop people pleasing was when I feel something to talk about it in that moment.
(31:14):
And it is the hardest thing I've ever learned to do. Full transparency, for the first five to six times I did it had panic attacks. I was so uncomfortable with the idea of taking up space in that way, and that was a really harrowing realisation as well.
(31:29):
And I see that across the board with ADHD'ers, is that intellectualising feelings in order to be understood, and it's heartbreaking and it's hard, and it's such a massive mindset shift, and it'll be horrible.
(31:40):
So sorry that you have to do it, but you do because it sucks. But once you do do it six months down the line, you don't have to carry that anxiety with you every day anymore. It's just, it happens.
(31:52):
You talk about it and it's gone, but it requires being really vulnerable and that's hard.
Becca Brighty (31:58):
Yeah, that is definitely a really tricky thing, even though I think what you've just described then I think I've got so much better with boundaries and people pleasing, but I definitely still do that in the moment.
(32:08):
I'll be like, ''I'm not going to say anything about it now, and then I'll just think about it, and then I'll try and write loads of notes in my iPhone about how I feel and what I feel, and then I'll Google articles to see whether I should actually be feeling these feelings.''
Ari Scott (32:21):
So you're intellectualising all of them.
Becca Brighty (32:23):
Two weeks.
Ari Scott (32:26):
It's so true.
(32:26):
You know, it's funny, so I would go to my therapist and I would say, ''Hey, OK, so I figured out why I was feeling this way, and then three days later I told the person.''
(32:36):
I'd be like, ''You proud of me?'' Trying to get some therapist validation, and my therapist would just be, ''Not really, because you're still just avoiding your feelings.''
(32:44):
And I'd be like, ''What do you mean? I don't understand?''
(32:47):
And genuinely, I just didn't understand it. and it's so true for ADHD'ers, and it's so difficult to manage, but it makes sense, when you put it in those terms, I am feeling something, if I don't say it now, it just sits in my body and in my nervous system, and I've been doing that for 30 years. That's a lot, lot to carry around with you, right?
(33:11):
And then boundaries wise, boundaries starts by recognising needs. And again, as ADHD'ers, we're not very good at that because we've sacrificed our own needs so long just to make it through the day.
(33:22):
From three, four years old. We're in school, our needs are to get up and move, for example, but we're not allowed to do that.
(33:32):
So we've sacrificed our needs immediately from that age. So we are conditioned as ADHD'ers to sacrifice our needs time and time and time again. So we take that into adulthood and that becomes very, very problematic. So oh, we're up against it, that's for sure.
Becca Brighty (33:46):
Definitely, and the needs thing I think is really tricky because of as soon as you get a diagnosis, you go to your manager or your family or whatever, and you say, ''Right, I've found out I've got ADHD.''
(33:57):
And they say, ''OK, what do you need?''
(33:58):
And you're like, ''I don't know. I've never thought about what I need ever.'' So I now don't really have that ability. But it is like you are saying, this is what people need to be doing in order to manage their dopamine, in order to manage their executive function, is telling people around them, whether that's in a workplace, what adjustments they need or whether it's with their family, what the things they need people to bear in mind.
(34:26):
What would you say is the first step for people actually figuring out their needs?
Ari Scott (34:30):
I think the easiest way to figure out your needs and your boundaries is to consider times when they've been overstepped and why it was a problem.
(34:37):
So it's easier to recognise rather than forward thinking to reflect, right? So if you think of let's say a work situation wherein you felt a certain way at work and it felt unfair or unjust or whatever that was, consider why that was and consider what you needed to be different in that situation to not feel that way.
(35:00):
That's whatI'd say, and then another thing again that my relationship coach actually taught me in terms of learning how to communicate those things was observation, thought, feeling, and then need.
(35:12):
So when you communicate something that someone's upset, it's at work, for example, you say, ''When I saw you do this, that made me think this, which made me feel this, and in order to not feel that way, I need this revolutionary in terms of communicating needs and boundaries.''
Becca Brighty (35:29):
Yeah, I love that because it's not putting the blame on anyone. It's not like you did this. It's like, this is how I interpreted it.
Ari Scott (35:35):
A hundred percent.
Becca Brighty (35:36):
All sounds great, and it's all psychology stuff and mindset stuff, which you know I'm a big fan of, but I am conscious of the time, especially in your time zone.
(35:45):
So just before we go, we've got two questions that I ask all guests. So the first one is, what tip would you give to ADHD'ers to help them make the impact they want to at work?
Ari Scott (35:56):
What tip would I give to ADHD'ers? Honestly, I'm not the person who, yeah, I got fired five times, don't ask me that.
Becca Brighty (36:03):
Sorry, at work in business, just in their careers. So work, business, career, entrepreneurship, the number one thing in your mind that people need to do to be successful in the world of work, business, entrepreneurship.
Ari Scott (36:18):
So I guess it's twofold. So mainly my advice would be just to try as many things as possible. Don't be held back by fear and that just find stuff because, and that's the second part of that tip is I think that in order to thrive as an ADHD'er in a professional capacity, obviously whatever you're doing needs to align with that interest based nervous system. So passion and interest being central to that. And I think it's really difficult sometimes to discover your passions and interests because those opportunities aren't there.
(36:51):
So genuinely mine would be take every opportunity, do a pottery class. Maybe it's the thing that you love or start a job, go and work in a restaurant. You just never know if you are feeling lost in that sense, which so many ADHD'ers are. Just go and do stuff. Find stuff that lights you up because that is what becomes sustainable, right?
Becca Brighty (37:14):
Yeah, absolutely. That interest driven nervous system. And then the finally is, what tip would you give people working with or employing people with ADHD to help that ADHD'er to achieve their potential or make the impact they want to?
Ari Scott (37:28):
Ask them. Aslk them what they need and make time for that and make that a safe environment. So a no judgement zone. So if they say to you, ''Sometimes I just need to go for a walk for 10 minutes during the day.''
(37:42):
Make that comfortable and understand why and support those things. Because I think there's always a perception that people with ADHD are trying to take the piss, right?
(37:53):
It's just like, oh, it's kind of like that classic old thing of when cigarette smokers used to get cigarette breaks and non-cigarette smokers would be annoyed. Why would they get a break? And so on and so forth.
(38:03):
But it comes back to that invisible disadvantage situation. So make time, do check-ins once a week with those employees that you have. I guarantee, by the way, for anyone who is listening, who employs people who have ADHD or neurodiversity in general, if you create the right environment for ADHD'ers who work for you, they'll be the best employees that you ever have and they'll give you the best results you ever see every single time.
Becca Brighty (38:25):
Absolutely.
(38:27):
Well, on that, I just want to thank you for your time, and if anybody wants to find you, where can they hunt you down?
Ari Scott (38:37):
This one always makes me laugh because when I was making my Instagram handle, I didn't take into account how it sounded out loud, and it's got two underscores in it.
(38:45):
So it's like 5 million senses long, but it is 'the_adhd_entrepeneur' on Instagram.
(38:51):
Or if you just search Ari Scott on LinkedIn as well, it'll definitely come up, I think. So if you want a much shorter typing, it's a Ari space Scott, or a bunch of underscores.
Becca Brighty (39:05):
OK, great.
(39:06):
Well, thank you very much for your time today. It was lovely to chat to you.
Ari Scott (39:10):
Yeah, no problem at all. Thanks for having me.
Becca Brighty (39:11):
Bye-Bye.
(39:15):
Thanks for listening.
(39:16):
If you want more information around this topic or details on the ways I support individuals in the workplace and help businesses to be more ADHD friendly, please go to 'adhdimpact.com' or follow me, Becca Brighty on LinkedIn.
In this captivating episode of The ADHD Impact podcast, our host Becca Brighty, a seasoned Business Psychologist and ADHD Coach, engages in a dynamic conversation with Ari Scott. 🎙️
Ari, an accomplished ADHD business coach and consultant, delves into her personal journey, shedding light on her experience of being misdiagnosed in childhood and later receiving an ADHD diagnosis as an adult. 🧠
Key Takeaways:
Ari delves into the unique strengths of ADHD in entrepreneurship and shares invaluable strategies for ADHD individuals to leverage these strengths for business success. 💪
Becca and Ari candidly explore the hurdles encountered by ADHD entrepreneurs, including the delicate balance of managing dopamine levels and establishing effective boundaries. 🛑
They engage deeply in topics like navigating people-pleasing tendencies, boundary-setting, and advocating for oneself as an ADHD individual in professional settings. ❤️
Together, they emphasise the paramount importance of aligning business practices with the ADHD brain for optimal success. 🧠
Practical Insights:
This episode is brimming with actionable advice tailored for both ADHD individuals navigating the business world and employers keen on supporting their neurodivergent employees. 🥰
To discover more about Ari and her impactful work, you can connect with her on LinkedIn at Ari Scott's LinkedIn. 👥🔍
Find out more about ADHD Impact here:
Stay updated with Becca Brighty on LinkedIn:
Becca Brighty's LinkedIn Profile
Discover more about Ari Scott, also known as The ADHD Entrepreneur, through Instagram: The ADHD Entrepreneur on Instagram